During his examination at the Hutton Inquiry PC Sawyer talked quite freely I thought whereas PC Franklin in my opinion was the quieter of the two. Mr Sawyer also has a penchant for writing it seems because the search and rescue magazine "SAR World" published a couple of articles by him and these gave a further insight into the specialisms of he and his colleagues:
http://www.sarworld.org/articles/14-public-articles/28-the-tale-of-a-police-search-team-leader.html
http://www.sarworld.org/web-links/34-lowland-sar-teams/22-wiltshire-search-and-rescue-wilsar
I notice that there was some reorganisation of the police search functions since he writes of the formation of the Policing Support Team based at the Royal Lodge, Windsor and, note the date, 'Since June 2003', in other words a few weeks before Dr Kelly's death.
Unsurprisingly he refers to the missing person search for Dr Kelly in the first article. It's useful that he confirms that it was PS Paul Woods who was responsible for calling out SEBEV. Paul Chapman at the Inquiry said that he got an initial page soon after 5 o'clock ... so a very early decision was made to at least have SEBEV on standby.
Showing posts with label PC Sawyer. Show all posts
Showing posts with label PC Sawyer. Show all posts
Friday, 14 September 2012
Tuesday, 11 September 2012
PC Sawyer - recalled at the Inquiry
Following PC Sawyer's testimony on the morning of 2 September DS Webb took the stand and his evidence continued to the lunch break. At the start of the afternoon session PC Sawyer was briefly recalled and this is the exchange with Mr Knox:
(2.00 pm)
POLICE CONSTABLE JONATHAN MARTYN SAWYER (recalled)
Examined by MR KNOX (continued)
LORD HUTTON: Yes Mr Knox.
MR KNOX: My Lord, I propose to recall Mr Sawyer to briefly deal with one point.
LORD HUTTON: Yes, come back please.
MR KNOX: Mr Sawyer, you will recall that this morning you said that amongst Dr Kelly's things that had been found on the search of the premises was a photograph which I think you said might have aroused some interest. I wonder if you could tell us something about the photograph that was found.
A. Certainly. It was found in the study of Dr Kelly at 11.45 by one of my searchers, PC Slyfield. It was seized because, at the time, it showed Dr Kelly and another person standing outside the Parliament building in Moscow. It was after the coup in Moscow and the Parliament building showed a certain amount of damage. The photograph was in fact dated 11th of the 8th 1993. PC Slyfield showed it to DC Burton who was the Special Branch officer with him and they both agreed the second person in the photograph bore a very striking resemblance to Andrew Gilligan. The photograph was then seized and produced as an exhibit. That is what I was referring to in my statement.
Q. What have subsequent inquiries revealed about that photograph?
A. Subsequent inquiries, I have spoken to PC Slyfield on the phone, and I have also spoken to a DS McGuire at the Long Hanborough incident room. PC Slyfield states that, in his opinion, the person has a resemblance to Andrew Gilligan. DS McGuire is of the opposite opinion, that it does not look like Andrew Gilligan; and, as a consequence, the photograph is being brought up tomorrow by ACC Page for the Inquiry to actually look at.
Q. Your current understanding of the position is that it is or is not Mr Gilligan?
A. On the -- I saw the photograph but very, very briefly. I can form no opinion either way.
LORD HUTTON: So it was really seized by the police because it was thought it bore a resemblance to Andrew Gilligan, that is as far as it goes?
A. Yes, and the date on the photograph being 1993 which is some 11 years ago when it was.
LORD HUTTON: Yes. Very well. Thank you very much.
MR KNOX: Mr Sawyer can I ask you this: as far as you are aware, what is the current view of the police force about this photograph?
A. The current view of the police force is it has been retained as an exhibit to be produced before this Inquiry. As to the identity of the second person in the photograph, that is a matter for the Inquiry to make its mind up. I must say that DS McGuire has also said he has been unable to actually speak to Mr Gilligan to verify the veracity of the photograph in question up to this point.
LORD HUTTON: Yes. Thank you very much Mr Sawyer.
A. Thank you my Lord.
The photograph alluded to can be seen here http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090128221550/http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/content/tvp/tvp_12_0001.pdf
A question has been raised about whether Dr Kelly always wore his spectacles bearing in mind that they weren't on his face when Dr Hunt was examining the body. The fact that he wasn't wearing them in the photograph could be misleading because this was a decade earlier. PC Sawyer is I think quite articulate in his answers but his arithmetic let him down when he referred to '11 years' rather than ten.
There is a reference too to the presence at the search of the Kelly home of a Special Branch officer: DC Burton. The recall of PC Sawyer would I suggest have been good PR for the Inquiry "leaving no stone unturned". Of course the reality in general was the exact opposite.
(2.00 pm)
POLICE CONSTABLE JONATHAN MARTYN SAWYER (recalled)
Examined by MR KNOX (continued)
LORD HUTTON: Yes Mr Knox.
MR KNOX: My Lord, I propose to recall Mr Sawyer to briefly deal with one point.
LORD HUTTON: Yes, come back please.
MR KNOX: Mr Sawyer, you will recall that this morning you said that amongst Dr Kelly's things that had been found on the search of the premises was a photograph which I think you said might have aroused some interest. I wonder if you could tell us something about the photograph that was found.
A. Certainly. It was found in the study of Dr Kelly at 11.45 by one of my searchers, PC Slyfield. It was seized because, at the time, it showed Dr Kelly and another person standing outside the Parliament building in Moscow. It was after the coup in Moscow and the Parliament building showed a certain amount of damage. The photograph was in fact dated 11th of the 8th 1993. PC Slyfield showed it to DC Burton who was the Special Branch officer with him and they both agreed the second person in the photograph bore a very striking resemblance to Andrew Gilligan. The photograph was then seized and produced as an exhibit. That is what I was referring to in my statement.
Q. What have subsequent inquiries revealed about that photograph?
A. Subsequent inquiries, I have spoken to PC Slyfield on the phone, and I have also spoken to a DS McGuire at the Long Hanborough incident room. PC Slyfield states that, in his opinion, the person has a resemblance to Andrew Gilligan. DS McGuire is of the opposite opinion, that it does not look like Andrew Gilligan; and, as a consequence, the photograph is being brought up tomorrow by ACC Page for the Inquiry to actually look at.
Q. Your current understanding of the position is that it is or is not Mr Gilligan?
A. On the -- I saw the photograph but very, very briefly. I can form no opinion either way.
LORD HUTTON: So it was really seized by the police because it was thought it bore a resemblance to Andrew Gilligan, that is as far as it goes?
A. Yes, and the date on the photograph being 1993 which is some 11 years ago when it was.
LORD HUTTON: Yes. Very well. Thank you very much.
MR KNOX: Mr Sawyer can I ask you this: as far as you are aware, what is the current view of the police force about this photograph?
A. The current view of the police force is it has been retained as an exhibit to be produced before this Inquiry. As to the identity of the second person in the photograph, that is a matter for the Inquiry to make its mind up. I must say that DS McGuire has also said he has been unable to actually speak to Mr Gilligan to verify the veracity of the photograph in question up to this point.
LORD HUTTON: Yes. Thank you very much Mr Sawyer.
A. Thank you my Lord.
The photograph alluded to can be seen here http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090128221550/http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/content/tvp/tvp_12_0001.pdf
A question has been raised about whether Dr Kelly always wore his spectacles bearing in mind that they weren't on his face when Dr Hunt was examining the body. The fact that he wasn't wearing them in the photograph could be misleading because this was a decade earlier. PC Sawyer is I think quite articulate in his answers but his arithmetic let him down when he referred to '11 years' rather than ten.
There is a reference too to the presence at the search of the Kelly home of a Special Branch officer: DC Burton. The recall of PC Sawyer would I suggest have been good PR for the Inquiry "leaving no stone unturned". Of course the reality in general was the exact opposite.
Monday, 10 September 2012
PC Sawyer - searching Hill and Home
This post is of PC Sawyer's evidence at the Inquiry where he describes the fingertip search at Harrowdown Hill and then the detailed search at the Kelly home the following day. Mr Knox putting the questions.
Q. Now, after you had taken the photographs and seen the body, did you carry out any further searches?
A. Yes. On the way back -- once we had finished with the body, once the paramedics had finished, we went back down the common approach path to the path where DC Coe and the two uniformed officers were. We then walked, leaving them there to guard the scene so nobody else could approach it, we then walked back to the truck, our Land Rover, and drove that up where we got some more metal poles. We extended the common approach path from one pole to two poles to about a 2 foot 6 gap, so people could walk up and down. We then had a quick look on that path, a search, just to check there were no major items there. And then we waited for the senior investigating officer to arrive and liaise with Police Constable Franklin.
For the third time Sawyer refers to the two uniformed officers being with DC Coe ... not plain clothes policemen.
Q. The senior investigating officer was?
A. DCI Young.
Q. I think we heard from PC Franklin earlier a further search was then carried out.
A. Yes. It was decided a search of the woods 10 metres either side of the body, on the approach up the hill to the body, would be carried out. I was tasked by Police Constable Franklin to organise that. I had a number of searchers at my disposal. Because of my number of searchers I decided to split it into three 5 metre wide approaches up to the body.
Q. This involves searching what you call the common approach path?
A. Yes. The first search would include the common approach path. So my team of -- if I may refer to my notes.
Q. Yes.
A. I had a team of seven searchers initially, so I put those into a 5 metre grid pattern which works up towards the body, and that would include the common approach path. So the first sweep, the first 5 metre search included the fingertip search of the common approach path.
Q. And that was carried out at what time?
A. That was carried out at -- sorry, we have an awful lot of paperwork when we are doing this job. It was started at 13.08 that first sweep.
In his testimony Franklin had said that he was requested at 12.50 to carry out a fingertip search. So 18 minutes from request to starting the search.
Q. How many sweeps do you do? You talk about the first sweep.
A. Right. My plan shows there were six zones eventually which we searched. The first zone, zone 1, was to the right-hand side of the common approach path to include the common approach path. The second zone was 5 metres beyond that, which took us up to level with the area that we had taped off surrounding the body. Zone 3 was the zone to the left of the common approach path. Zone 4, 5 metres further on from that. Zone 5 was the 10 metre radius round the back of the area where the body had been found, which was really dense brambles and overgrown trees. And zone 6 was the area where the body itself had been lying.
Q. We do not have a photograph here at the moment but what was the nature of the woods around the common approach path and then where the body was found?
A. Up the common approach path to where the -- the common approach path was the easiest route in, and either side of that the undergrowth was reasonably light. But as you moved away each side, left and right, the undergrowth became extremely heavy. Zone 5, which went round the back of the scene, was almost impenetrable and the searchers had a really hard job getting through the brambles and the undergrowth to check the ground.
Mr Knox said 'We do not have a photograph here at the moment ...' It can I think be safely said that no photograph of the scene, with or without the body, would have been made publically visible even if available.
Q. Obviously Dr Kelly had managed to get to where he was, but in the searches you did were you able to identify any footprints at all which would have explained how he got there?
A. He had moved up through the woods to the last area, where there was clear access. If I was walking into those woods myself I would have walked up as far as he had before deciding it was impossible to go any further, because there were footpaths apparently which led through that but they were so overgrown nobody had been through them for a number of months.
Q. In other words, it was possible to walk to where Dr Kelly's body was found without much difficulty?
A. Yes.
Q. If you wanted to go any further you would have to go through very dense --
A. You would struggle, really struggle, yes.
Q. How long was the common approach path?
A. Estimate between 50 and 70 metres.
Q. When did that search finish, can you recall?
A. The final search finished at 19.45. We had to wait until Dr Kelly's body was removed before we could search zone 6, which is where the body had been lying.
Q. You were involved in all these searches?
A. Yes, I team led the team searches. When you are a team leader and you are assigned to this, you see it all the way through from beginning to end.
Q. At the end of the search, did you collect all the suits you had been wearing?
A. Yes, I collected all the suits from both search teams. As PC Franklin has said, halfway through or towards the end the search teams were changed through fatigue, and all the teams' suits and all the gloves were collected and produced as an exhibit.
Q. They were taken back to the police station?
A. Yes.
PC Sawyer estimated the length of the common approach path to be between 50 and 70 metres, the same measurement given by PC Franklin.
Q. On the next day were you on duty as well, Saturday 19th July?
A. Yes, I was. I returned to duty the following day again to work with PC Franklin as he wanted me to team lead a search of Dr Kelly's house.
Q. And what did you do once you got there?
A. Whenever we search a premise the first thing we do is walk through with the search adviser and we, again, just check the parameters of the search. The search was to include the house, any out-buildings, garages, cars and the grounds, which were extensive in this particular case. The house itself is a very large house.
Q. What were the results of the search of the grounds of the house? Was there anything noticed?
A. The grounds there was nothing found.
Q. And what about in the house itself?
A. The house itself there were a number of exhibits. Do you want me to go through them all?
Details of the items found appear to be listed in this document: TVP/3/0328 - 0368 (Search document "Westfield" 19/07/03 - not for release. Police Operational Information)
Q. I do not think you need you to go through all the exhibits themselves. Was there anything particular, apart from documents and so forth that you found in the house?
A. No. Basically there were documents that were taken away. I believe there was a photograph found in his study which has envisaged a little interest, but when I am team leading the search, the officers who find the exhibits will take them straight to the exhibits officer, who books them in to the exhibits. They then tell me so I can log them in my records, but I am not looking over their shoulder the whole time although I do travel round and supervise.
Q. Can you remember when the search of the premises began on the 19th?
A. The search began at 11.05.
Q. And when did it finish on that day?
A. It finished at 20.50, 10 to 9 that evening. The search of the study was concluded, and that was the last place to be finished.
Mr Knox asks PC Sawyer about the start and finish times for the search on the 19th. Two weeks later and Mr Knox fails to ask similar questions of DC Coe who, it will be recalled, was also involved in a search at "Westfield" that Saturday.
Q. I should have asked you this a moment ago, but while you were searching in the woods did you find anything at all which indicated that any other people had been there?
A. No, nothing. Normally when we search wooded areas there is a fair amount of detritus, crisp packets, bottles, cans, cigarette ends. This area itself was remarkable for its complete lack of human interference.
Q. I take it you did not find any footprints?
A. No.
Q. Would that be normal? Obviously Dr Kelly had got in there, but you would not have expected to see his footprints there?
A. I would not have expected to find any footprints in that area because of the undergrowth itself. There was not a lot of bare earth for footprints to be recorded on; and when I first saw Dr Kelly I was very aware of the serious nature of the search and I was looking for signs of perhaps a struggle; but all the vegetation that was surrounding Dr Kelly's body was standing upright and there were no signs of any form of struggle at all.
Q. Is there anything else you would like to say which you think might cast some light on the circumstances --
A. I can think of nothing else which will help the Inquiry.
LORD HUTTON: Thank you very much indeed, Constable.
A. My Lord.
There was a lot of known human activity in the area of the body but no footprints were left. It should have been evident to the police and to Dr Hunt that Dr Kelly, if incapacitated, could have been carried into the wood. Alternatively he could have walked into the wood with a gun in his back. There seems to be an assumption by the police that if Dr Kelly was murdered then there would be evidence of a struggle. I do not believe that there would necessarily have to have been a struggle between Dr Kelly and one or more assailants, if he was murdered.
Q. Now, after you had taken the photographs and seen the body, did you carry out any further searches?
A. Yes. On the way back -- once we had finished with the body, once the paramedics had finished, we went back down the common approach path to the path where DC Coe and the two uniformed officers were. We then walked, leaving them there to guard the scene so nobody else could approach it, we then walked back to the truck, our Land Rover, and drove that up where we got some more metal poles. We extended the common approach path from one pole to two poles to about a 2 foot 6 gap, so people could walk up and down. We then had a quick look on that path, a search, just to check there were no major items there. And then we waited for the senior investigating officer to arrive and liaise with Police Constable Franklin.
For the third time Sawyer refers to the two uniformed officers being with DC Coe ... not plain clothes policemen.
Q. The senior investigating officer was?
A. DCI Young.
Q. I think we heard from PC Franklin earlier a further search was then carried out.
A. Yes. It was decided a search of the woods 10 metres either side of the body, on the approach up the hill to the body, would be carried out. I was tasked by Police Constable Franklin to organise that. I had a number of searchers at my disposal. Because of my number of searchers I decided to split it into three 5 metre wide approaches up to the body.
Q. This involves searching what you call the common approach path?
A. Yes. The first search would include the common approach path. So my team of -- if I may refer to my notes.
Q. Yes.
A. I had a team of seven searchers initially, so I put those into a 5 metre grid pattern which works up towards the body, and that would include the common approach path. So the first sweep, the first 5 metre search included the fingertip search of the common approach path.
Q. And that was carried out at what time?
A. That was carried out at -- sorry, we have an awful lot of paperwork when we are doing this job. It was started at 13.08 that first sweep.
In his testimony Franklin had said that he was requested at 12.50 to carry out a fingertip search. So 18 minutes from request to starting the search.
Q. How many sweeps do you do? You talk about the first sweep.
A. Right. My plan shows there were six zones eventually which we searched. The first zone, zone 1, was to the right-hand side of the common approach path to include the common approach path. The second zone was 5 metres beyond that, which took us up to level with the area that we had taped off surrounding the body. Zone 3 was the zone to the left of the common approach path. Zone 4, 5 metres further on from that. Zone 5 was the 10 metre radius round the back of the area where the body had been found, which was really dense brambles and overgrown trees. And zone 6 was the area where the body itself had been lying.
Q. We do not have a photograph here at the moment but what was the nature of the woods around the common approach path and then where the body was found?
A. Up the common approach path to where the -- the common approach path was the easiest route in, and either side of that the undergrowth was reasonably light. But as you moved away each side, left and right, the undergrowth became extremely heavy. Zone 5, which went round the back of the scene, was almost impenetrable and the searchers had a really hard job getting through the brambles and the undergrowth to check the ground.
Mr Knox said 'We do not have a photograph here at the moment ...' It can I think be safely said that no photograph of the scene, with or without the body, would have been made publically visible even if available.
Q. Obviously Dr Kelly had managed to get to where he was, but in the searches you did were you able to identify any footprints at all which would have explained how he got there?
A. He had moved up through the woods to the last area, where there was clear access. If I was walking into those woods myself I would have walked up as far as he had before deciding it was impossible to go any further, because there were footpaths apparently which led through that but they were so overgrown nobody had been through them for a number of months.
Q. In other words, it was possible to walk to where Dr Kelly's body was found without much difficulty?
A. Yes.
Q. If you wanted to go any further you would have to go through very dense --
A. You would struggle, really struggle, yes.
Q. How long was the common approach path?
A. Estimate between 50 and 70 metres.
Q. When did that search finish, can you recall?
A. The final search finished at 19.45. We had to wait until Dr Kelly's body was removed before we could search zone 6, which is where the body had been lying.
Q. You were involved in all these searches?
A. Yes, I team led the team searches. When you are a team leader and you are assigned to this, you see it all the way through from beginning to end.
Q. At the end of the search, did you collect all the suits you had been wearing?
A. Yes, I collected all the suits from both search teams. As PC Franklin has said, halfway through or towards the end the search teams were changed through fatigue, and all the teams' suits and all the gloves were collected and produced as an exhibit.
Q. They were taken back to the police station?
A. Yes.
PC Sawyer estimated the length of the common approach path to be between 50 and 70 metres, the same measurement given by PC Franklin.
Q. On the next day were you on duty as well, Saturday 19th July?
A. Yes, I was. I returned to duty the following day again to work with PC Franklin as he wanted me to team lead a search of Dr Kelly's house.
Q. And what did you do once you got there?
A. Whenever we search a premise the first thing we do is walk through with the search adviser and we, again, just check the parameters of the search. The search was to include the house, any out-buildings, garages, cars and the grounds, which were extensive in this particular case. The house itself is a very large house.
Q. What were the results of the search of the grounds of the house? Was there anything noticed?
A. The grounds there was nothing found.
Q. And what about in the house itself?
A. The house itself there were a number of exhibits. Do you want me to go through them all?
Details of the items found appear to be listed in this document: TVP/3/0328 - 0368 (Search document "Westfield" 19/07/03 - not for release. Police Operational Information)
Q. I do not think you need you to go through all the exhibits themselves. Was there anything particular, apart from documents and so forth that you found in the house?
A. No. Basically there were documents that were taken away. I believe there was a photograph found in his study which has envisaged a little interest, but when I am team leading the search, the officers who find the exhibits will take them straight to the exhibits officer, who books them in to the exhibits. They then tell me so I can log them in my records, but I am not looking over their shoulder the whole time although I do travel round and supervise.
Q. Can you remember when the search of the premises began on the 19th?
A. The search began at 11.05.
Q. And when did it finish on that day?
A. It finished at 20.50, 10 to 9 that evening. The search of the study was concluded, and that was the last place to be finished.
Mr Knox asks PC Sawyer about the start and finish times for the search on the 19th. Two weeks later and Mr Knox fails to ask similar questions of DC Coe who, it will be recalled, was also involved in a search at "Westfield" that Saturday.
Q. I should have asked you this a moment ago, but while you were searching in the woods did you find anything at all which indicated that any other people had been there?
A. No, nothing. Normally when we search wooded areas there is a fair amount of detritus, crisp packets, bottles, cans, cigarette ends. This area itself was remarkable for its complete lack of human interference.
Q. I take it you did not find any footprints?
A. No.
Q. Would that be normal? Obviously Dr Kelly had got in there, but you would not have expected to see his footprints there?
A. I would not have expected to find any footprints in that area because of the undergrowth itself. There was not a lot of bare earth for footprints to be recorded on; and when I first saw Dr Kelly I was very aware of the serious nature of the search and I was looking for signs of perhaps a struggle; but all the vegetation that was surrounding Dr Kelly's body was standing upright and there were no signs of any form of struggle at all.
Q. Is there anything else you would like to say which you think might cast some light on the circumstances --
A. I can think of nothing else which will help the Inquiry.
LORD HUTTON: Thank you very much indeed, Constable.
A. My Lord.
There was a lot of known human activity in the area of the body but no footprints were left. It should have been evident to the police and to Dr Hunt that Dr Kelly, if incapacitated, could have been carried into the wood. Alternatively he could have walked into the wood with a gun in his back. There seems to be an assumption by the police that if Dr Kelly was murdered then there would be evidence of a struggle. I do not believe that there would necessarily have to have been a struggle between Dr Kelly and one or more assailants, if he was murdered.
PC Sawyer - at the scene
PC Sawyer's examination by Mr Knox continues:
Q. Did you see anything on the way? Did you notice anything on the way?
A. No, no. As we walked through the woods we were leaving our aluminium poles, which have a fluorescent marker on the top, so we could establish the route we had taken into the woods. As we crested the slight rise, I saw the body lying at the base of a tree. I then said to PC Franklin and the paramedics to stop while I got my digital camera because I wanted to take a record of the scene before it was -- before we actually approached it at all. So I took a number of pictures as we approached the body, and of the body and the surrounding area; and then the paramedics asked if they could do their job, to which we said: yes.
They tried to -- they used the paddles of the electrocardiogram machine to try to see if there was a sign of life through Dr Kelly's shirt. They were unable to do so and said: could they undo the shirt? I said: yes. I asked them to wait for a second. I took another two more reference pictures. They then undid the shirt, put the electrodes on and got a graph from the machine which showed there were no signs of life.
I then -- they disconnected their equipment from the machine, leaving the electrodes in place; I asked them to do that. I then took a further reference shot to show the electrodes in place.
Q. Before the paramedics approached Dr Kelly's body, can you remember what position it was in?
A. Lying on its back with its head at the base of a tree, a large tree. The head was tilted to the left. The right arm was by the side. The left arm was palm down. There was a large amount of blood on the back of the left arm. There was a watch and a curved knife by that wrist.
Q. And you say a curved knife. Was it open? Was it a pen knife?
A. It was open. I have seen gardening pruning knives which look identical. I would have called it a pruning knife.
Q. Did you see a bottle of water?
A. I did, by Dr Kelly's head. There was an open bottle of Evian, 500 ml or 300 ml bottle, with the cap by the side of it, by his head.
Q. Was it upright?
A. It was leaning slightly. It had been propped but it was upright. There was still some water in it.
Q. What injuries did you see on the body itself?
A. I could not see any actual injuries because the injuries, I believe, were hidden by the wrist being turned down. But there was a large amount of blood there, and also from the mouth, the corner of -- the right-hand corner of the mouth to the ear there was a dark stain where I took it that Dr Kelly had vomited and it had run down the side of his face.
Q. What about on his face, were there any marks or stains on his clothes?
A. His jeans -- he was wearing jeans, they were pulled up slightly, exposing the lower half of his leg or his ankle. It looked as if he had slid down and his trousers had ridden up. I believe on the right-hand knee there was a patch of what I took to be blood, but I do not know what it was, but it had the appearance of blood.
Q. Did he still have his jacket on?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there any marks on the jacket, as far as you could see?
A. No, only the blood from his wrist.
PC Sawyer's answers are reasonably detailed and some quite long. The overall impression is of someone who is self confident, perhaps more so than PC Franklin.
As happened with PC Franklin he failed to mention the Barbour cap. According to Dave Bartlett, one of the ambulance crew, the cap was present. Viewed as a clothing item perhaps it didn't register with Franklin and Sawyer in the way that the knife, watch and water bottle did. Alternatively there might have been an ulterior motive for not mentioning it.
Q. Did you see anything on the way? Did you notice anything on the way?
A. No, no. As we walked through the woods we were leaving our aluminium poles, which have a fluorescent marker on the top, so we could establish the route we had taken into the woods. As we crested the slight rise, I saw the body lying at the base of a tree. I then said to PC Franklin and the paramedics to stop while I got my digital camera because I wanted to take a record of the scene before it was -- before we actually approached it at all. So I took a number of pictures as we approached the body, and of the body and the surrounding area; and then the paramedics asked if they could do their job, to which we said: yes.
They tried to -- they used the paddles of the electrocardiogram machine to try to see if there was a sign of life through Dr Kelly's shirt. They were unable to do so and said: could they undo the shirt? I said: yes. I asked them to wait for a second. I took another two more reference pictures. They then undid the shirt, put the electrodes on and got a graph from the machine which showed there were no signs of life.
I then -- they disconnected their equipment from the machine, leaving the electrodes in place; I asked them to do that. I then took a further reference shot to show the electrodes in place.
Q. Before the paramedics approached Dr Kelly's body, can you remember what position it was in?
A. Lying on its back with its head at the base of a tree, a large tree. The head was tilted to the left. The right arm was by the side. The left arm was palm down. There was a large amount of blood on the back of the left arm. There was a watch and a curved knife by that wrist.
Q. And you say a curved knife. Was it open? Was it a pen knife?
A. It was open. I have seen gardening pruning knives which look identical. I would have called it a pruning knife.
Q. Did you see a bottle of water?
A. I did, by Dr Kelly's head. There was an open bottle of Evian, 500 ml or 300 ml bottle, with the cap by the side of it, by his head.
Q. Was it upright?
A. It was leaning slightly. It had been propped but it was upright. There was still some water in it.
Q. What injuries did you see on the body itself?
A. I could not see any actual injuries because the injuries, I believe, were hidden by the wrist being turned down. But there was a large amount of blood there, and also from the mouth, the corner of -- the right-hand corner of the mouth to the ear there was a dark stain where I took it that Dr Kelly had vomited and it had run down the side of his face.
Q. What about on his face, were there any marks or stains on his clothes?
A. His jeans -- he was wearing jeans, they were pulled up slightly, exposing the lower half of his leg or his ankle. It looked as if he had slid down and his trousers had ridden up. I believe on the right-hand knee there was a patch of what I took to be blood, but I do not know what it was, but it had the appearance of blood.
Q. Did he still have his jacket on?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there any marks on the jacket, as far as you could see?
A. No, only the blood from his wrist.
PC Sawyer's answers are reasonably detailed and some quite long. The overall impression is of someone who is self confident, perhaps more so than PC Franklin.
As happened with PC Franklin he failed to mention the Barbour cap. According to Dave Bartlett, one of the ambulance crew, the cap was present. Viewed as a clothing item perhaps it didn't register with Franklin and Sawyer in the way that the knife, watch and water bottle did. Alternatively there might have been an ulterior motive for not mentioning it.
PC Sawyer - goes to the scene
At this point PCs Franklin and Sawyer have heard that a body has been found at Harrowdown Hill and, taking three officers to act as cordons, they leave Abingdon police station for the scene.
Q. And where did you then go?
A. We then went to the track that leads up to Harrowdown Hill, I do not know the name of the track, but when we arrived we saw a vehicle parked which belonged to Louise. We started walking up the track. We also had with us two paramedics who had arrived, which we took up with us to make sure that the person we were going to see did not require any medical assistance.
As with Franklin we have Sawyer on Christian name terms with the searchers. Here though it should be noted that Norman Baker states in his book that Louise Holmes was the then girl friend of PC Sawyer. I wondered how Mr Baker had come by this information but he was unable to tell me off the cuff and apologised that it would be too time consuming to find the source of it in his considerable number of documents. Although I'm not sure about this I believe that Ms Holmes has denied any such relationship at that time.
Q. Those two paramedics had obviously arrived separately from you?
A. They had arrived more or less at the same time we did. So the five of us went up because we were with Sergeant Alan Dadd as well.
Q. Where did you stop the cars?
A. Stopped the cars -- I believe it at is the top, I have not seen the map but I believe it is at the top of Common Lane. Then we turned left and right up to the track which leads up to Harrowdown Hill.
Q. You go along the track, where do you then go to?
A. We met Paul from SEBEV walking down the hill.
Q. Paul Chapman?
A. He told us basically the body was further up in the woods. We continued walking up the hill, where I saw DC Coe and two uniformed officers. I said, you know: whereabouts is the body? He pointed the path he had taken. I asked him if he had approached the body. He said he had. I asked him to point out where he had entered the woods and PC Franklin and myself entered the woods at the same point, taking with us a dozen or 15 aluminium poles we use when we are moving towards a scene to establish a common approach path.
This seems to be the only time at the Inquiry that Sergeant Dadd is mentioned.
As with PC Franklin PC Sawyer tells the Inquiry that they meet Paul. But no mention is made of Louise Holmes, just her car.
Again it's recorded that Coe is seen with two uniformed officers. Whereas Franklin mentions the fact once it will later be seen that Sawyer states on three occasions that they were in uniform.
Sawyer's description of his and Franklin's interaction with Coe differs from that of Franklin ... something to look at later perhaps.
Q. Were the paramedics with you at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. The other three officers?
A. They remained down on the path.
Q. So it is you, PC Franklin and two paramedics, then the other three officers you have met; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You go down further into the woods, is that right?
A. The three officers -- DC Coe and the two uniformed officers -- stayed on the path which leads through the woods. We branched off to the left about 50 or 70 metres up into the woods, where the body was.
Q. So it is just the four of you; is that right?
A. Just the four of us went up there.
Although not mentioned it seems likely to me that Sergeant Dadd stayed with Coe and the two uniformed officers until the ambulance team were leaving the scene.
Q. And where did you then go?
A. We then went to the track that leads up to Harrowdown Hill, I do not know the name of the track, but when we arrived we saw a vehicle parked which belonged to Louise. We started walking up the track. We also had with us two paramedics who had arrived, which we took up with us to make sure that the person we were going to see did not require any medical assistance.
As with Franklin we have Sawyer on Christian name terms with the searchers. Here though it should be noted that Norman Baker states in his book that Louise Holmes was the then girl friend of PC Sawyer. I wondered how Mr Baker had come by this information but he was unable to tell me off the cuff and apologised that it would be too time consuming to find the source of it in his considerable number of documents. Although I'm not sure about this I believe that Ms Holmes has denied any such relationship at that time.
Q. Those two paramedics had obviously arrived separately from you?
A. They had arrived more or less at the same time we did. So the five of us went up because we were with Sergeant Alan Dadd as well.
Q. Where did you stop the cars?
A. Stopped the cars -- I believe it at is the top, I have not seen the map but I believe it is at the top of Common Lane. Then we turned left and right up to the track which leads up to Harrowdown Hill.
Q. You go along the track, where do you then go to?
A. We met Paul from SEBEV walking down the hill.
Q. Paul Chapman?
A. He told us basically the body was further up in the woods. We continued walking up the hill, where I saw DC Coe and two uniformed officers. I said, you know: whereabouts is the body? He pointed the path he had taken. I asked him if he had approached the body. He said he had. I asked him to point out where he had entered the woods and PC Franklin and myself entered the woods at the same point, taking with us a dozen or 15 aluminium poles we use when we are moving towards a scene to establish a common approach path.
This seems to be the only time at the Inquiry that Sergeant Dadd is mentioned.
As with PC Franklin PC Sawyer tells the Inquiry that they meet Paul. But no mention is made of Louise Holmes, just her car.
Again it's recorded that Coe is seen with two uniformed officers. Whereas Franklin mentions the fact once it will later be seen that Sawyer states on three occasions that they were in uniform.
Sawyer's description of his and Franklin's interaction with Coe differs from that of Franklin ... something to look at later perhaps.
Q. Were the paramedics with you at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. The other three officers?
A. They remained down on the path.
Q. So it is you, PC Franklin and two paramedics, then the other three officers you have met; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You go down further into the woods, is that right?
A. The three officers -- DC Coe and the two uniformed officers -- stayed on the path which leads through the woods. We branched off to the left about 50 or 70 metres up into the woods, where the body was.
Q. So it is just the four of you; is that right?
A. Just the four of us went up there.
Although not mentioned it seems likely to me that Sergeant Dadd stayed with Coe and the two uniformed officers until the ambulance team were leaving the scene.
PC Sawyer - being briefed
This is the first part of PC Sawyer's examination at the Hutton Inquiry on 2 September:
POLICE CONSTABLE MARTYN SAWYER (called)
Examined by MR KNOX
Q. Mr Sawyer, what is your full name?
A. Jonathan Martyn Sawyer.
Q. Your occupation?
A. I am a police constable with the Thames Valley Police, stationed on the police search team the same as PC Franklin.
Q. Which station?
A. That would be from the Royal Lodge in Windsor Great Park.
Q. What are your qualifications?
A. I am a qualified EOD searcher, which is explosive ordnance searcher. We have to be licensed by the Home Office and we retrain on a periodic basis. We also train to search major crime scenes, murder scenes and any major event. We search events like Royal Ascot, which we call a defensive search, to make sure there are no explosive devices left. We also do offensive searches or crime scene searches, as the Dr David Kelly search.
Q. I understand you are a search team leader?
A. I am a search team leader, which means I have done a further course which enables me to actually run a search. Police Constable Franklin, being the police search adviser, will liaise with the senior investigating officer. They will decide on the parameters of the search, what they want searched. It is then turned over to me to organise the logistics of it, to plan the search, do the cordons, to set the searchers going and supervise them while they are searching.
Q. You were on duty on the morning of 18th July?
A. Yes.
Q. What happened when you first turned up?
A. I was called out, I believe, about 6 o'clock in the morning to attend Abingdon police station for 8, where I was informed by PC Franklin we had a high risk missing person. We had a missing person who was identified to me as Dr Kelly.
Q. Just pause there for a moment. A high risk missing person, meaning what?
A. "High risk" means that there is a possibility that because of the length of time they have been missing there is a possibility that he might have done himself harm.
The possibility that Dr Kelly might have done himself harm is accepted by 8 o'clock, the time at which the volunteer searchers are commencing their walk up the track to Harrowdown Hill. Had the two SEBEV members ever found a suicide before? They would I suppose have been trained to accept that their searches might end with finding a dead body but usually I imagine the outcome would be a happier one than occurred here.
Q. So Police Constable Franklin tells you that. Then what happens?
A. Then we are in the briefing that Police Constable Franklin has already described. We are just about to leave to perform our first searches, which would have been in the village and the surrounding areas of the route he was thought to have taken, when information came in that a body had been found. I then left with Police Constable Franklin to attend the scene.
Q. Can you remember what time it was that that information came in?
A. It would have been about 9 o'clock, I believe.
The phrase used by Sawyer 'the route he was thought to have taken' is interesting. Is this based on the assumption that he had indeed gone to Harrowdown Hill and that he would have taken the most direct route to get there?
Paul Chapman's 999 call was clocked at 09.20 which puts Sawyer's recall of the time about 20 minutes too early. In my opinion this isn't a detail that a police officer would ordinarily record in his notebook.
Q. So you then leave with Police Constable Franklin?
A. Yes.
Q. And anyone else?
A. We had three other officers in the back who we took from the search team to act as the cordons, because obviously we do not want members of the public or members of the press approaching the scene until it has been obviously searched and declared sterile.
POLICE CONSTABLE MARTYN SAWYER (called)
Examined by MR KNOX
Q. Mr Sawyer, what is your full name?
A. Jonathan Martyn Sawyer.
Q. Your occupation?
A. I am a police constable with the Thames Valley Police, stationed on the police search team the same as PC Franklin.
Q. Which station?
A. That would be from the Royal Lodge in Windsor Great Park.
Q. What are your qualifications?
A. I am a qualified EOD searcher, which is explosive ordnance searcher. We have to be licensed by the Home Office and we retrain on a periodic basis. We also train to search major crime scenes, murder scenes and any major event. We search events like Royal Ascot, which we call a defensive search, to make sure there are no explosive devices left. We also do offensive searches or crime scene searches, as the Dr David Kelly search.
Q. I understand you are a search team leader?
A. I am a search team leader, which means I have done a further course which enables me to actually run a search. Police Constable Franklin, being the police search adviser, will liaise with the senior investigating officer. They will decide on the parameters of the search, what they want searched. It is then turned over to me to organise the logistics of it, to plan the search, do the cordons, to set the searchers going and supervise them while they are searching.
Q. You were on duty on the morning of 18th July?
A. Yes.
Q. What happened when you first turned up?
A. I was called out, I believe, about 6 o'clock in the morning to attend Abingdon police station for 8, where I was informed by PC Franklin we had a high risk missing person. We had a missing person who was identified to me as Dr Kelly.
Q. Just pause there for a moment. A high risk missing person, meaning what?
A. "High risk" means that there is a possibility that because of the length of time they have been missing there is a possibility that he might have done himself harm.
The possibility that Dr Kelly might have done himself harm is accepted by 8 o'clock, the time at which the volunteer searchers are commencing their walk up the track to Harrowdown Hill. Had the two SEBEV members ever found a suicide before? They would I suppose have been trained to accept that their searches might end with finding a dead body but usually I imagine the outcome would be a happier one than occurred here.
Q. So Police Constable Franklin tells you that. Then what happens?
A. Then we are in the briefing that Police Constable Franklin has already described. We are just about to leave to perform our first searches, which would have been in the village and the surrounding areas of the route he was thought to have taken, when information came in that a body had been found. I then left with Police Constable Franklin to attend the scene.
Q. Can you remember what time it was that that information came in?
A. It would have been about 9 o'clock, I believe.
The phrase used by Sawyer 'the route he was thought to have taken' is interesting. Is this based on the assumption that he had indeed gone to Harrowdown Hill and that he would have taken the most direct route to get there?
Paul Chapman's 999 call was clocked at 09.20 which puts Sawyer's recall of the time about 20 minutes too early. In my opinion this isn't a detail that a police officer would ordinarily record in his notebook.
Q. So you then leave with Police Constable Franklin?
A. Yes.
Q. And anyone else?
A. We had three other officers in the back who we took from the search team to act as the cordons, because obviously we do not want members of the public or members of the press approaching the scene until it has been obviously searched and declared sterile.
Friday, 15 June 2012
Vomitus on the body and on the ground (1)
There was evidence of vomiting at the scene ... on Dr Kelly's face, his clothing and on the ground. This is what was said and written:
12. Given the finding of blister packs of co-proxamol tablets within the coat pocket and the vomitus around the mouth and floor, it is an entirely reasonable supposition that he may have consumed a quantity of these tablets either on the way to or at the scene itself.
Mr Green (in his report)
Areas of possible vomit-like staining were observed on both sides of deceased's face coming from the mouth, on the jacket (NCH.17) and on the ground partially covered by the cap (AMH.6).
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An area of whitish vomit-like staining was observed on the upper back [of the Barbour jacket] but this was not analysed further.
My thoughts
Ambulanceman Dave Bartlett (at the Inquiry)
Q. What about the face? Did you notice anything about the face?
A. Yes, going from the corners of the mouth were two stains, one slightly longer than the other.
Q. Where did the stains go to from the mouth?
A. Towards the bottom of the ears.
A. Yes, going from the corners of the mouth were two stains, one slightly longer than the other.
Q. Where did the stains go to from the mouth?
A. Towards the bottom of the ears.
PC Sawyer (at the Inquiry)
Q. What injuries did you see on the body itself?
A. I could not see any actual injuries because the injuries, I believe, were hidden by the wrist being turned down. But there was a large amount of blood there, and also from the mouth, the corner of -- the right-hand corner of the mouth to the ear there was a dark stain where I took it that Dr Kelly had vomited and it had run down the side of his face.
A. I could not see any actual injuries because the injuries, I believe, were hidden by the wrist being turned down. But there was a large amount of blood there, and also from the mouth, the corner of -- the right-hand corner of the mouth to the ear there was a dark stain where I took it that Dr Kelly had vomited and it had run down the side of his face.
Dr Hunt (at the Inquiry)
Q. Did you notice anything about the face?
A. His face appeared, firstly, rather pale but there was also what looked like vomit running from the right corner of the mouth and also from the left corner of the mouth and streaking the face.
A. His face appeared, firstly, rather pale but there was also what looked like vomit running from the right corner of the mouth and also from the left corner of the mouth and streaking the face.
Q. What would that appear to indicate?
A. It suggested that he had tried to vomit whilst he was lying on his back and it had trickled down.
Q. Was there any vomit found on the scene itself?
A. Yes, there was some vomit. There was some vomit staining over the left shoulder of the jacket and also on the ground in the region of his left shoulder.
Dr Hunt (in his report)
- There was a band of what appeared to be vomitus running from the right corner of the mouth, slightly upwards over the right earlobe tip and then onto the right mastoid area. This appeared to have relatively uniform and parallel sides. Such material was noted around the mouth over both upper and lower lips. Vomitus could also be seen running from the left corner of the mouth and there was a possible patch of vomit staining in proximity to the left shoulder on the ground. There was some vomit staining on the back of the left shoulder area of the waxed jacket and also on the outer aspect of the upper sleeve on that side of the jacket.
12. Given the finding of blister packs of co-proxamol tablets within the coat pocket and the vomitus around the mouth and floor, it is an entirely reasonable supposition that he may have consumed a quantity of these tablets either on the way to or at the scene itself.
Mr Green (in his report)
Areas of possible vomit-like staining were observed on both sides of deceased's face coming from the mouth, on the jacket (NCH.17) and on the ground partially covered by the cap (AMH.6).
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An area of whitish vomit-like staining was observed on the upper back [of the Barbour jacket] but this was not analysed further.
My thoughts
- Although tests weren't carried out on the presumed vomitus I don't have any reason to think that it wasn't Dr Kelly's vomit that was observed.
- Both Dave Bartlett and PC Sawyer observe the vomit on the face, this perhaps more obvious than the vomitus on the jacket and ground.
- The evidence of vomit streaking going towards the ears is critical ... from that it has been deduced that Dr Kelly vomited whilst lying down. This needs to be seen in the context of Dr Kelly's body being discovered with his head and shoulders slumped against a tree, of which more later. It has been suggested, very sensibly in my opinion, that one reason to move the body to a lying down position could be the realisation that the vomit streaks wouldn't match the partially sitting up position of the body.
- Thanks to the eventual publication of Mr Green's report we now know that the vomitus on the ground was partially covered by the Barbour cap. The mystery relating to the removal of the cap, and the blood on it, remains.
Monday, 11 June 2012
The blood: the blood on Dr Kelly's clothing (2)
In my last post I recorded the evidence of blood on Dr Kelly's Barbour jacket ... as seen through the eyes of Mr Green and Dr Hunt in their reports. Now I want to do the same thing in discussing the blood seen on Dr Kelly's jeans. It will be noticed that there are some unexplained peculiarities.
The jeans
Mr Green
The right knee of the jeans bore a roughly circular contact bloodstain that was approximately 8 cm in diameter. This showed that at sometime during the incident and after the deceased had sustained an injury to his wrist he had knelt in a pool of blood. One such area of bloodstaining was visible by the left hip of the deceased. This area of bloodstaining was sampled as item AMH.29, STR profiling of the blood on this swab produced a full profile which matched that of Dr Kelly.
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Q. What about on his face, were there any marks or stains on his clothes?
A. His jeans -- he was wearing jeans, they were pulled up slightly, exposing the lower half of his leg or his ankle. It looked as if he had slid down and his trousers had ridden up. I believe on the right-hand knee there was a patch of what I took to be blood, but I do not know what it was, but it had the appearance of blood.
The two paramedics have a very different recollection to about the size of the stain on the right knee of the jeans when compared with Mr Green's description:
Dave Bartlett (at the Hutton Inquiry): 'about 25 mm across'
Vanessa Hunt (interview in the Observer) 'the size of a 50p piece'
Dave Bartlett (interview in the Mail on Sunday) 'a spot the size of a 10p'
These three descriptions by the paramedics are essentially identical.
My thoughts
The jeans
Mr Green
The right knee of the jeans bore a roughly circular contact bloodstain that was approximately 8 cm in diameter. This showed that at sometime during the incident and after the deceased had sustained an injury to his wrist he had knelt in a pool of blood. One such area of bloodstaining was visible by the left hip of the deceased. This area of bloodstaining was sampled as item AMH.29, STR profiling of the blood on this swab produced a full profile which matched that of Dr Kelly.
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Item NCH.10 was a faded pair of blue jeans. The jeans bore a large contact bloodstain just below the right knee area, which measured approximately 8 cm in diameter. Although the stain was below the right knee in my opinion if the right leg of the jeans had rucked up slightly this area could have covered the right knee. STR profiling of this stain confirmed the presence of blood that could have come from Dr David Kelly. Therefore this bloodstain could have been the result of Dr Kelly kneeling in a pool of his own blood.
A diluted bloodstain of a similar size was present on the left leg below the level of the large contact bloodstain described above and more towards the left side of the leg. Small bloodstains were present over the thigh areas of both legs and several smeared contact stains were present on the upper front right, between the right pocket and the fly area. STR profiling of one of these stains gave a full STR profile, which matched that of Dr David Kelly. So this blood could have come from him. Smears of blood were present on the back of the lower left leg. A few small stains were present on the lower right leg also, together with small contact stains on the right seat.
Dr Hunt
Clothing
- A pair of blue denim jeans, the zip of which was done up. The left leg of the jeans was pulled up to approximately mid-calf level. The right leg was pulled up to just above the ankle.
- There was some bloodstaining over the right groin area and over the tops of both thighs
- There was a heavier patch of bloodstaining over the right knee area. Also in this area was greenish material.
- There was a patch of light bloodstaining over the inner aspect of the right knee.
Q. What about on his face, were there any marks or stains on his clothes?
A. His jeans -- he was wearing jeans, they were pulled up slightly, exposing the lower half of his leg or his ankle. It looked as if he had slid down and his trousers had ridden up. I believe on the right-hand knee there was a patch of what I took to be blood, but I do not know what it was, but it had the appearance of blood.
The two paramedics have a very different recollection to about the size of the stain on the right knee of the jeans when compared with Mr Green's description:
Dave Bartlett (at the Hutton Inquiry): 'about 25 mm across'
Vanessa Hunt (interview in the Observer) 'the size of a 50p piece'
Dave Bartlett (interview in the Mail on Sunday) 'a spot the size of a 10p'
These three descriptions by the paramedics are essentially identical.
My thoughts
- As one would expect the descriptions of blood on the jeans is more detailed in Mr Green's statement than those recorded in Dr Hunt's report.
- The diluted bloodstain noted by Mr Green on the left leg isn't mentioned by Dr Hunt. This suggests that it may not have been apparent until close inspection and testing was carried out at the laboratory.
- Mr Green doesn't try to explain the presence of the diluted bloodstain. Perhaps Dr Kelly had had some mishap previously leading to this bloodstain and there had been an unsuccessful attempt at washing it off.
- Apart from the bloodstain on the right knee the remaining blood spots and stains on the jeans appear to be such that because of their size or location they wouldn't be readily visible to the paramedics.
- Similarly PC Sawyer notes the stain on the right knee only.
- Surprisingly Mr Green makes no reference to the greenish material that Dr Hunt reported.
- The bloodstain seen by Mr Green on the right knee is approximately TEN times bigger in area than that reported by the paramedics. Is this credible unless blood has been added? I don't believe so. At 8 cm in diameter it would cover virtually the whole of the kneecap.
- There is no evidence that Hutton ever read Mr Green's report although it was available to the Inquiry which is not the same thing as being sent there. For Hutton to arrive at a conclusion regarding Dr Kelly's death without reference to Mr Green's detailed findings is quite ridiculous. The coroner, Nicolas Gardiner, wasn't privy to any evidence, written or spoken, from Mr Green before the death was registered on 18 August 2003.
Sunday, 3 June 2012
The blood: PCs Franklin and Sawyer have their say
Leading the ambulance team to the scene of the body were PC Franklin and PC Sawyer. At the Hutton Inquiry on 2 September Franklin was questioned by Mr Dingemans, then it was Sawyer's turn with his evidence taken by Mr Knox.
These are the extracts of their testimonies relating to the blood that they saw:
PC Franklin
Q. Did you see any signs of injury on the body?
A. There was a fair amount of blood to the left wrist area and on the left hand, and a fair amount of blood sort of puddled around.
Q. On the ground?
A. On the ground, yes.
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These are the extracts of their testimonies relating to the blood that they saw:
PC Franklin
Q. Did you see any signs of injury on the body?
A. There was a fair amount of blood to the left wrist area and on the left hand, and a fair amount of blood sort of puddled around.
Q. On the ground?
A. On the ground, yes.
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Q. And what did the knife look like?
A. The blade was open. It was some sort of lock knife. I cannot be that precise. I believe it had a curved -- slight curve to the blade. The blade was maybe 3 to 4 inches long.
Q. Was there anything on the blade?
A. Blood.
A. The blade was open. It was some sort of lock knife. I cannot be that precise. I believe it had a curved -- slight curve to the blade. The blade was maybe 3 to 4 inches long.
Q. Was there anything on the blade?
A. Blood.
PC Sawyer
Q. Before the paramedics approached Dr Kelly's body, can you remember what position it was in?
A. Lying on its back with its head at the base of a tree, a large tree. The head was tilted to the left. The right arm was by the side. The left arm was palm down. There was a large amount of blood on the back of the left arm. There was a watch and a curved knife by that wrist.
A. Lying on its back with its head at the base of a tree, a large tree. The head was tilted to the left. The right arm was by the side. The left arm was palm down. There was a large amount of blood on the back of the left arm. There was a watch and a curved knife by that wrist.
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Q. What injuries did you see on the body itself?
A. I could not see any actual injuries because the injuries, I believe, were hidden by the wrist being turned down. But there was a large amount of blood there, and also from the mouth, the corner of -- the right-hand corner of the mouth to the ear there was a dark stain where I took it that Dr Kelly had vomited and it had run down the side of his face.
Q. What about on his face, were there any marks or stains on his clothes?
A. His jeans -- he was wearing jeans, they were pulled up slightly, exposing the lower half of his leg or his ankle. It looked as if he had slid down and his trousers had ridden up. I believe on the right-hand knee there was a patch of what I took to be blood, but I do not know what it was, but it had the appearance of blood.
Q. Did he still have his jacket on?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there any marks on the jacket, as far as you could see?
A. No, only the blood from his wrist.
A. I could not see any actual injuries because the injuries, I believe, were hidden by the wrist being turned down. But there was a large amount of blood there, and also from the mouth, the corner of -- the right-hand corner of the mouth to the ear there was a dark stain where I took it that Dr Kelly had vomited and it had run down the side of his face.
Q. What about on his face, were there any marks or stains on his clothes?
A. His jeans -- he was wearing jeans, they were pulled up slightly, exposing the lower half of his leg or his ankle. It looked as if he had slid down and his trousers had ridden up. I believe on the right-hand knee there was a patch of what I took to be blood, but I do not know what it was, but it had the appearance of blood.
Q. Did he still have his jacket on?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there any marks on the jacket, as far as you could see?
A. No, only the blood from his wrist.
In Annex TVP 3 on the Attorney General's website there are short extracts from the witness statements of these two police constables http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk/Publications/Documents/Annex%20TVP%203.pdf No mention is made of blood in either of them.
Both Franklin and Sawyer get logged out of the scene for brief periods which I will detail later but other than that they are at Harrowdown Hill until after the hearse leaves with Dr Kelly's body. If any blood was added to the scene after the departure of the ambulance team then they may have been aware of the fact.
Franklin's description of 'blood sort of puddled around' is very unsatisfactory. Neither Dingemans nor Hutton sought to clarify what he said. Coe and the paramedics failed to see the blood puddles; later I shall show that one of these, the pool of blood under the knife, would have been created after the paramedics left the scene.
PC Sawyer also sees the blood, or what he assumes to be blood, on the right-hand knee but that is all he observes on the clothing.
Sunday, 27 May 2012
The knife at Harrowdown Hill
A knife was found at Harrowdown Hill to the left of the body. The purpose of this post is to record the descriptions of the knife through the eyes of the witnesses.
Although apparently close to the body the knife isn't mentioned by either of the civilian searchers at the Hutton Inquiry or in that part of their police statements that have been disclosed. Neither the counsel to the Inquiry nor Lord Hutton ask Louise Holmes or Paul Chapman about the knife. The searchers aren't asked about any of the other objects near the body nor do they volunteer information about them, suggesting that they were added after the searchers left the scene. As will be discussed later the evidence is of the body being moved as well as each arm relative to the body. Therefore the possibility of the various artifacts being added by a third party can't be ruled out.
This is DC Coe at the Hutton Inquiry:
Although apparently close to the body the knife isn't mentioned by either of the civilian searchers at the Hutton Inquiry or in that part of their police statements that have been disclosed. Neither the counsel to the Inquiry nor Lord Hutton ask Louise Holmes or Paul Chapman about the knife. The searchers aren't asked about any of the other objects near the body nor do they volunteer information about them, suggesting that they were added after the searchers left the scene. As will be discussed later the evidence is of the body being moved as well as each arm relative to the body. Therefore the possibility of the various artifacts being added by a third party can't be ruled out.
This is DC Coe at the Hutton Inquiry:
Q. Did you notice anything about the body?
A. I did.
Q. What did you notice?
A. I noticed that there was blood round the left wrist. I saw a knife, like a pruning knife, and a watch.
DC Coe police witness statement (from Annex TVP 1)
I could see that his left wrist had blood on it. Close to the wrist was a small knife like a pruning knife together with a wrist watch.
PC Franklin at the Hutton Inquiry
Q. And what did the knife look like?
A. The blade was open. It was some sort of lock knife. I cannot be that precise. I believe it had a curved -- slight curve to the blade. The blade was maybe 3 to 4 inches long.
Q. Was there anything on the blade?
A. Blood.
A. The blade was open. It was some sort of lock knife. I cannot be that precise. I believe it had a curved -- slight curve to the blade. The blade was maybe 3 to 4 inches long.
Q. Was there anything on the blade?
A. Blood.
PC Franklin police witness statement (from Annex TVP 3)
... the deceased had an apparent cut to his left arm, his wristwatch and a knife were lying close to the left arm ...
PC Sawyer at the Hutton Inquiry
There was a large amount of blood on the back of the left arm. There was a watch and a curved knife by that wrist.
Q. And you say a curved knife. Was it open? Was it a penknife?
A. It was open. I have seen gardening pruning knives which look identical. I would have called it a pruning knife.
Q. And you say a curved knife. Was it open? Was it a penknife?
A. It was open. I have seen gardening pruning knives which look identical. I would have called it a pruning knife.
The published extract of PC Sawyer's witness statement is very short and doesn't include any reference to the knife.
Paramedic Vanessa Hunt at the Hutton Inquiry
Q. Right. And did you see anything on the ground?
A. There was a silver bladed knife, a wristwatch, which was off of the wrist.
Q. Yes.
A. And, oh, a water bottle, a small water bottle stood up to the left side of Dr Kelly's head.
The published extract of Vanessa Hunts witness statement in Annex TVP 3 just deals with the body position.
Ambulance Technician Dave Bartlett at the Hutton Inquiry
Q. What type of a knife was it?
A. I think it was one of those silver quite flat ones with like a curved blade, more like a pruning knife.
Dave Bartlett police witness statement (Annex TVP 3)
On the ground next to the left arm I saw a watch and an open penknife and an empty water bottle.
Forensic Pathologist Dr Nicholas Hunt at the Hutton Inquiry
Q. What about next to the watch?
A. Lying next to that was a pruning knife or gardener's knife.
A. Lying next to that was a pruning knife or gardener's knife.
Q. Can you describe what type of pruning knife it was?
A. The make was a Sandvig knife. It was one with a little hook or lip towards the tip of the blade. It is a fairly standard gardeners' type knife.
Dr Hunt in his report
Lying near his left hand, on the grass, was a black resin-strapped wristwatch; presumably a digital watch, lying face down and showing some bloodstaining.
Lying adjacent to this was a white metal 'Sandvik' pruning type knife, or gardener's knife, with its blade extended from the handle. There was bloodstaining over both the handles and the blade and a pool of blood beneath the knife which was approximately 8-10 by approximately 4-5 cms.
Forensic biologist Roy Green at the Hutton Inquiry
Q. What else did you see around the body?
A. There was a bloodstained watch and a knife to --
Q. Was the knife bloodstained?
A. Yes, it was, yes.
Mr Green's written statement
The "Sandvik" knife (AMH.5) was a stainless steel penknife. The single blade, which was curved and measured 7.5 cm in length, was exposed. The blade and the handle were heavily stained with blood especially on the right side.
So what information can we draw from this? The basic description of the knife is consistent between the various witnesses at Harrowdown Hill which is hardly surprising. What is noticeable is that neither the ambulance crew nor DC Coe mention blood on the knife, by the time Mr Green sees it both the blade and handle are heavily stained with blood. Even more theatrically Dr Hunt describes a pool of blood beneath the knife. I shall explain later the evidence of the knife (and watch) having been moved between the time the ambulance crew are at the scene and the examination of the scene by Dr Hunt and Mr Green.
Mr Green, not surprisingly, gives us the most accurate description of the knife. I have just made a measurement to see how wide my wrist is: it is almost exactly 7.5 cm across ... the same as the length of the blade. The fact that the blade was curved demonstrates to me that its shape was far from ideal for the purpose. I would have thought a knife of the "Stanley" type with a straight blade would have been far better for making incisions.
Some more interesting aspects of the knife to come in my next posts.
Dr Hunt in his report
Lying near his left hand, on the grass, was a black resin-strapped wristwatch; presumably a digital watch, lying face down and showing some bloodstaining.
Lying adjacent to this was a white metal 'Sandvik' pruning type knife, or gardener's knife, with its blade extended from the handle. There was bloodstaining over both the handles and the blade and a pool of blood beneath the knife which was approximately 8-10 by approximately 4-5 cms.
Forensic biologist Roy Green at the Hutton Inquiry
Q. What else did you see around the body?
A. There was a bloodstained watch and a knife to --
Q. Was the knife bloodstained?
A. Yes, it was, yes.
Mr Green's written statement
The "Sandvik" knife (AMH.5) was a stainless steel penknife. The single blade, which was curved and measured 7.5 cm in length, was exposed. The blade and the handle were heavily stained with blood especially on the right side.
So what information can we draw from this? The basic description of the knife is consistent between the various witnesses at Harrowdown Hill which is hardly surprising. What is noticeable is that neither the ambulance crew nor DC Coe mention blood on the knife, by the time Mr Green sees it both the blade and handle are heavily stained with blood. Even more theatrically Dr Hunt describes a pool of blood beneath the knife. I shall explain later the evidence of the knife (and watch) having been moved between the time the ambulance crew are at the scene and the examination of the scene by Dr Hunt and Mr Green.
Mr Green, not surprisingly, gives us the most accurate description of the knife. I have just made a measurement to see how wide my wrist is: it is almost exactly 7.5 cm across ... the same as the length of the blade. The fact that the blade was curved demonstrates to me that its shape was far from ideal for the purpose. I would have thought a knife of the "Stanley" type with a straight blade would have been far better for making incisions.
Some more interesting aspects of the knife to come in my next posts.
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