Thursday 31 May 2012

Death and a single cut wrist artery

In my last post I had considered the illogicality of selecting the ulnar artery for incision if a person was contemplating suicidePrevious to that post I had discussed the knife found close to Dr Kelly's body and pointed out that it wasn't a sensible choice for someone bent on cutting their wrist.  Even more important than these points perhaps is the question of whether someone can die from blood loss as a result of incising a wrist artery and it's this matter that I now want to address.

Prior to Lord Hutton publishing his report on 28 January 2004 some medical experts were already asking how it was possible to lose sufficient blood (in medical parlance "exsanguination") from a severed wrist artery to lead to death.  Although some people have said that it can and has happened I would want to see a pathologist's report to be convinced.

As with the medical experts I am talking about a deceased who doesn't have a blood clotting disorder, a person who cuts just one wrist artery and someone who isn't sitting in a bath with the wrist immersed in water to keep the blood flowing.  Moreover it needs to be a case where there isn't another major contributory cause to the death.

Prior to carrying out the post mortem on Dr Kelly's body Dr Hunt had performed thousands of autopsies as I pointed out in this post  http://drkellysdeath-timeforthetruth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/dr-hunt-had-conducted-thousands-of-post.html  Before 18th July 2003 it seems that he had never carried out a post mortem on a person who had died as a result of haemorrhage from cutting a single artery in the wrist, certainly not the ulnar.  Effectively he was in, to him, uncharted territory.

Attempted suicide by wrist slashing isn't that uncommon but usually the physical damage that results is quite limited.  This is what one of the ambulance crew, Dave Bartlett, said in a newspaper interview on 12 September 2010:

‘To me, people rarely commit suicide by slitting their wrists. They’ll usually do it and end up in hospital.’

The ambulance crew were interviewed for The Observer by Antony Barnett on 12 December 2004.  This is Dave Bartlett again:

Most of them are taken down the hospital and given a few stitches then sent straight back home. 

There is an interesting comment in the "Jack of Kent" blog by someone calling themselves "London Cardiologist" http://jackofkent.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/blogging-on-death-of-dr-david-kelly.html

This is the comment:

I am a hospital doctor who regularly needs to cut the radial artery in the wrist as part of planned therapeutic procedure. I perform this procedure 5-6 times per day, as do my colleagues.

None of us have ever seen anyone lose more than a small amount of blood from radial artery trauma, let alone bleed to death (as was the stated cause of death for Dr Kelly). Our personal experience is compatitble with all of the medical textbooks and current scientific literature.
The artery clamps down and spasms when it is cut - preventing further blood loss - which is presumably an evolutionary mechanism. Although the possibility of the occurance of fatal radial artery haemorrhage exists, its theoretical likelihood is very small.

Scientific knowledge would be advanced if the inquest notes here were in the public domain. The medical profession might change its practice and preconceptions about radial artery trauma with the information provided.

Put simply, one of the major functions of the inquest system is to advance the total sum of human knowledge. Until this information is in the public domain, it can't be critically appraised. These are the reasons why all skeptics should be drawing attention to this; the conspiracy theorists have nothing to do with it.


This doctor is talking about the radial artery but it is almost identical in size to the ulnar artery.  To all intents and purposes a single transected wrist artery out in the open and with the person having no blood clotting problems should not lead to sufficient blood loss to lead to death.

Hutton is seriously at fault once again in not asking about the likelihood of death resulting from a single cut artery.  Dr Hunt appears to have given little thought about whether this supposed cause of death stands up to scrutiny.  

At the moment then we have an unsuitable knife, the wrong artery being cut and the near impossibility of death from cutting a single ulnar artery.  As we shall see the evidence doesn't show that there was sufficient blood loss at Harrowdown Hill to support the official cause of death.

26 comments:

  1. I died , cutting both wrists, the r one was not ejecting blood as pulse rate, but my left one was spitting blood high, at the rate of my heart beat, I had complete cardiovascular collapse within 1 hour, they brought me back, intubated 2 surgeries ICU for 6 days later I am now left 6 months later with a malfunctioning hand and pain.. I regret my act.

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    1. Do you think you will try to kill yourself again? Trying a different method? If you succeeded in killing yourself you obviously put a lot of effort into it and wanted to die. Has that frame of mind changed?

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    2. When any person cut his wrist what happened that time
      It instely die
      Plz tell

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  2. And this is why assisted suicide should be legal.

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  3. I succeeded as well but mine was in a warm bath. I get to forever feel the pain of a slit wrist as a part of the nerve damage I received. Yayyy!

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    Replies
    1. You did not succeed if you are still alive & posting

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    2. You succeeded mate you lived and told tomorrow youl be there

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  4. Dr Kelly died of heart failure possibly exacerbated by blood loss. HF death rarely requires ANY bleeding. Ignoring this shows a failure to understand VERY basic medicine.

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  6. why does it have to be a wrist? What about the vein on the opposite side of the elbow (where they always take your blood sample?

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    Replies
    1. because thats a vain and not an artery..

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  7. So many snotty uneducated people on here. Anonymous 1/27/14 you were so honest and straight forward. There are so many idiots out there that are not educated and have to pick at others. I've struggled with depression off and on throuout my life. It's been controlled but I understand. I'm 46. Been in health care since 16, and been nurse for 26 years. I read these sights and I finally responded for very first time. People are mean to people like you who actually offer wisdom to these sites. I'm embarressed by these idiots. So im apologizing for them to you. I'm so very sorry.
    This is like a year or so later. But if u happen to ever read this I hope you are doing well dear friend. BLESs YOU AND YOUR family.

    ReplyDelete
  8. So many snotty uneducated people on here. Anonymous 1/27/14 you were so honest and straight forward. There are so many idiots out there that are not educated and have to pick at others. I've struggled with depression off and on throuout my life. It's been controlled but I understand. I'm 46. Been in health care since 16, and been nurse for 26 years. I read these sights and I finally responded for very first time. People are mean to people like you who actually offer wisdom to these sites. I'm embarressed by these idiots. So im apologizing for them to you. I'm so very sorry.
    This is like a year or so later. But if u happen to ever read this I hope you are doing well dear friend. BLESs YOU AND YOUR family.

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  9. Hello sir, i m a medical student ...
    I just wanted to ask that what about the patient with diabetes & high blood pressure there r possible chances that they loose blood more then normal individual...u only considered hemophiliacs...& What if the cut is more deep enough to cut even the ulnar artery...how much complicated the case could b in this situation could patient survive... & How long???

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  10. Hello sir, i m a medical student ...
    I just wanted to ask that what about the patient with diabetes & high blood pressure there r possible chances that they loose blood more then normal individual...u only considered hemophiliacs...& What if the cut is more deep enough to cut even the ulnar artery...how much complicated the case could b in this situation could patient survive... & How long???

    ReplyDelete
  11. Death we all live till we meet it . Never let death meet us . Always think about the next day more than the present in that time of self abuse because you never know just how much you'd miss the next day . Taking your life away from living is only a second in disguise of a feeling inside saying yourve have had enough but not as much as the feeling saying you should stay to be there tomorrow . It took a lot of work for you to get through the years of childhood through to teenage and to adulthood aswel let all that work prove to yourself that the moment suicide comes to you, let it know that your a surviver and you made it this far in life to once meet it one day and say not today mate . It isn't about being strong it's about knowing your worth from in the best of you and what you can do with it . If you think you only have your worst to give then try giving your best at that to be a better you , who cares what people say or think , this is your time this is your life this is who you are in this world . The best part of being alive is to know that your the best of who you are not what others say . Talk to your inner self and ask why and I'm sure you will hear the answer . Live it proud live you like you and be the best you can be for you . Your the most precious person in your life , one day you will see the meaning to life is in you all .

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  12. Replies
    1. Focus on your breath. Live minute by minute... you can get through this xxx

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  13. I wrote that because I went through it and wanted to share it because there are some people out there that don't need the petty talk but hear the truth . What people don't realise is that we just want to be heard not judged and altered to a perception to where they think it's correct . It's only correct when we feel that someone is listening without telling us that nobody hates you or there's no need to do this without even understanding . When someone comes to you with tears and listens then you know someone is actually there and it's worth holding on to and when they reply they reply with conversation without the bullshit . Nobody wants anyone to die, everyone wants everyone to live and that's how we should look at life . Feel what your saying when people need it most and show them that you really do care . My alias is watcher but if you need to talk im here

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  14. I used to sing before my relationship destroyed that due to her jelious state and I crumbled after that but it was my choice to crumble and fall into depression . There are a lot more reasons to why I fell into that state of mind and I knew how hard it was to climb out of it but I ended up realizing that I'm the only choice maker in my life and I prefer me just the way I am and if I love me I love everyone so in this world of ours I'm sorry to say I'm number 1 to me and everyone can be number 1 if you's believe that you come first . Look after yourself first and youl be able to look after everyone else . Never take on anyone else's unwanted drama. The difference between drama and real hurt is the reality of it . Drama is made up unwanted thoughts or voices of others opinions don't overload yourselves with others worries or pain . Embrace it nurture it let it know that it can be tamed with love . Everything is worth forgiving where it's needed

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  15. I have gorren yo my limit. I am 69 & my 46 year old sick son lives with me. He looses his temper on the flip of a switch. He yells sc4eams throw things calls me names & is in my face at one inch away. I cant speak, i cant reason & calls me vulgar names. When he calms down he acts as though nothing is wrong. He is a lunatic & a parolee he says his whole life if wrong doing is my fault. I cannot take this anymore. I pray for his conversion to our God with no change. Either he dies from his illnesses or i kill myself or he kills me! Help me i am at the end.

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    Replies
    1. I’m to young and inexperienced in life to offer the help I wish to give but I can tell you that therapy might be helpful, or you could take medical action to see if your son has a mental health condition.

      https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

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  16. Sounds like he’s taking his mental health out on you. You have to be strong and stand up to him tell him he has to change his ways and respect you or move out to live by himself. Give him an ultimatum, I am betting he won’t change so I guess the first slip don’t falter tell him to move out.

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  17. Don't worry about him . Worry about you . You don't need to stand t her and take what your body doesn't need . You have to make priority you to take care of him . So put yourself first you are above all because if you can defend what your body mind and soul needs youl be able to pass all the bullshit to know you have all the tools you need that have made you who you are today to help the person next to you . It's you that has to be strong to know that you have a line that doesn't get stepped over by anyone . Don't think that you might hurt someone with things that you don't mean to say . Think for yourself first your number 1. Do what's right for you to make the correct decision . It's your self awareness that can actually open up your sub conscious mind to know what bullshit you can and will not take . You are your own seed . Nurture that and life will make decisions in yourself to feel that righteous reflect to others .

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